Textual Excerpts V from "A Book of Christian Mysticism" by Robert Lind Defries

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NOTA BENE!
WHAT THIS BOOK IS NOT!

TEXTUAL EXCERPTS V

MY RELIGION AND SPIRITUALITY VS.
SECULAR PSYCHOLOGY
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Textual Excerpts

MY RELIGION AND SPIRITUALITY VS. SECULAR PSYCHOLOGY

From Jesus and the angels (not directly)
Written in the Oratory Church-Holy Family Church, Toronto, Canada: Friday, March 7th, 1997.

Please Lord Jesus make me whole,
Fill me til my very soul,

Rises from the earth so long,
Resting peaceful in your calm.

Take us all to heaven to stay,
On that great and fateful day.

All my trials and sinfulness,
Wipe away by your caress.

Do not note the wrong I've done,
Choose me freely as thy son.

Mystery of Christ surround me,
Thine arms of glory wrap around me.

Truth and Justice are your standard,
Mercy be your Word commanded.

Mercy finds and keeps forever,
Rule of God confounds the clever.

Simple hearts in heaven's glow,
Transport children from below.

All to rest in love for ever,
Joy of God's love ceasing never.

MY REPLY AND REFUTATION TO THE PSYCHOMETRIST FRANK ROBINSON'S CRITIQUE AND VIEWS ON MY EXPERIENCES

[Frank Robinson is my psychometrist who has been my friend for 18 years now (June, 2000). I see him one hour, once a week, to this day. By the way this is his real name and identity.
He is a very kind person, generous and inevitably selflessly, other-oriented. He is genuine, quite bright and his overriding characteristics are compassion and mercy.
He belongs to a small, basically Christian Church, but he does not share my church's teaching on hell and damnation. He feels that everyone is saved and that no one is lost because God's love and mercy are infinite (apocatastasis).
My own insistence on Catholic teaching, the bible and the witness of the saints he accepts for me! Also, he is a syncretist.
He mixes teachings of other faiths with Christianity, notably those of Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, such as reincarnation in the latter two.
These teachings are by definition, not Christian teachings. Also, he feels the devil is not or should not be a factor.
We part company on these points, but our relationship remains warm and from my perspective, satisfyingly intimate.
Frank's views:
It is a complex question. The answer is not easily accounted for. Some of the phenomenon are undoubtedly auditory, visual or somatic hallucinations. [Would you Frank,know the difference between a saints visions and feelings and a clients so called "hallucinations???"---Fess-up Frank!!! [Even he can see some validity in my experiences.
Note the use of the word "some".in HIS preceding sentence R.D.] These phenomena are hallucinations, because they occur outside of the normally accepted sensory pathways. [Mystical experiences are outside normally accepted sensory pathways R.D..]
A number of the ideas surrounding the illusions would be classified as being delusional.[Or not explained by conventional thinking - R.D.]
[Frank's views again.]
For example, some influences are drawn from objective reality: ie. a turn of the head influencing an event in the environment are without any basis in reality, according to the normal mode of perceiving and thinking.
[This phenomena can be easily explained as a mystical experience. It is not unusual or isolated. In the normal situation, it is bizarre. To the mystic, it is an action of the Holy Spirit. R.D.]
These experiences are considered to be examples of a disordered mind in the psychiatric sense. [Wrong - they are mystical. The psychiatric sense is often severely prejudiced against religion and "irrational and unexplained phenomenon" "I think Freud was disordered." R.D.]
Medication is provided to help ease the severity of these disturbances.
[Not these "disturbances" but a recognized chemical imbalance..[quote psychiatry]."I would agree that I have a chemical imbalance, but the phenomena are, and respond as, spiritual. They do not respond to medication at all because they are spiritual.
When my medication is working well, then the "visions" are just as vivid as when there is no medication present, in fact much clearer.R.D.]
However, [Frank's opinion] psychiatry and its theories are not able to compass or give directions to the total structure of the psyche or the mind.
There is a grey area where events of a para-normal nature do not fit into the traditional psychiatric mould.
One of the ideas is - ego syntonicity. Is the effect of the experiences constructive or destructive to the personality?
This may be simplistic, but can be useful, for the saint or the mystic often will have experiences of this nature, and this does not make him/her any less functional in the world (or ego-syntonic).
It is empirical because you can observe how well a person can function. [But one may be pre - occupied, absent - minded, in religious ecstasy, or oppressed R.D.]
One of the criteria, to determine whether experiences are psychiatric or paranormal ego- syntonic ones, is to be able to question the degree of truth they purport.
Can one be objective about one's experiences - are they true? The possibility that these are not true is always present.
Any skilled and sympathetic observation from an outside observer (spiritual or psychological) is good.
[Does the observer have the same mode and tools for observing? R.D.] Are they able to be objective to the person's experiences?
[But, can the observer see or hear everything the mystic does? Does not the observer live in a different world - the mundane world?]
And who is to say that the mundane world is more valid than the mystical world?
What are your criteria for judging? Are the scales weighted more in favour of the mundane world?
The problem is that you just don't understand because you haven't experienced God directly. Believe me, you would be an instant convert if you did.
And is it sickness or is it God? Well. If we can agree that God exists, then WHERE IS HE ? DOES HE HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH EARTH - EVER?
DOES GOD VISIT OR INFLUENCE THE EARTH ? DOES HE INFLUENCE US, DIRECTLY??? R.D.] Frank again.
If the experiences don't stand up to rational investigation and can't be explained in any sensible manner, even if the parameters are different from the observer(the person listening), then the experiences may be delusional.
For example, most people don't accept paranormal phenomenon, but it is accepted by some,so there is a wide latitude of acceptance here. [Would a Saint's visions of Jesus or Mary be considered delusional?]
[I think that I should warn you that by asking that question and by how you answer it you are indicating whether you have a fundamentally religious, specifically Christian view of life or the universe. - R.D.]
[Frank's views] R.D. Laing - mental illness is a state of incongruence between the meaning worlds of self and other (people) and in this view, can be looked upon as a disturbance in communication with the cause or seat of the disturbance, lying in the inner cognitive and feeling structure of the other.
There has to be order to the personality and the ability to communicate. R.D. Laing thinks the disturbed intra-psychic process in the so-called patient is to be accepted and may be a sane solution to an insane situation. (A non-judgmental viewpoint R.D.)
There is the need to communicate and relate in common forms, gestures and meanings for the sake of daily living and inhabiting a common world. [But the mystics world is common to him / her and God's world.]
In the so called mentally ill, there are also often disturbances of feeling; eg -no feeling, lability (feeling swings), pervasive and euphoric moods (mania), depression or aggressiveness.
So (in Robert's case) there is a mixture of mental illness and a mixture of experience that is probably valid. It is sometimes very hard to tell when the illness is there and when the mysticism is there.
[ Could that be because there is a lot of mysticism present - IE. mystery. --R.D.].
MY FURTHER REBUTTAL AND REFUTATION OF MY PSYCHOMETRIST FRANK ROBINSON

The ego-dystonic or performance debilitating effect most often presented by Frank is the presence of Mr. D. or the devil. Frank says this causes instability, depression, and other negative effects, which are dystonic and are therefore indicative of an unhealthy spirituality and illness.
I admit they are present, but only with the knowledge of Almighty God. Also, they drew or forced me into a closer relationship with the Most Holy Trinity, (Jesus in particular) as a compensating mechanism.
I would present the jury with the example of Sister Josefa Menendez who was plagued by the devil, until she died as a result of the fiend's terrors and actions.
She is a candidate for sainthood. According to Frank she is ego-dystonic. In addition, St. Catherine of Sienna was oppressed by the evil one often.
Indeed, most contemplatives are occupied with fighting evil from time to time in the form of the devil.
Tuesday July 2nd, 1991
[The explanations of Frank Robinson, my psychometrist as to why he finds certain types of my phenomena suspect from a mental health perspective are, in fact, suspect themselves.
In the first place, the devil was only involved in approximately less than 20% of the occurrences, as I presented them to him at the beginning of our sessions. The experiences of the devil he considers ego-dystonic or a sign of illness.What about Job??
As I have pointed out elsewhere, the presence of the devil may be seen as a sign of, even in fact, some sanctity, if we consider he often only afflicts those he thinks may escape him. I am not playing tic-tac-toe with the devil.
He wants to destroy me, because I belong to Jesus Christ. This is not the sign of a disordered mind, it is an endorsement of my spirituality. It is realistic spiritually.
God is the one who allows the devil to occasionally plague me. God does this with full knowledge of the total situation, locally and cosmically. He acts only for my own good and the common GOOD.
He always leaves a way out for us. So if the devil is present, accept it. Don't accept the devil but accept that he is there.
God either wants him there or permits him to be there and for a purpose. Fight him and resist him until "he flees". Frank basically wants to pretend that the devil doesn't exist OR that he can't come into my world.
The other incidence of so called mental illness that Frank mentions, "the turn of a head", is a simple case of a prayer thought by me, triggering a movement by a very visible and powerful Holy Spirit that caused the other person involved to move their head.
If one accepts that prayer is sometimes effective and that God can influence human events, movements, and even thoughts, then is it too much to ask that Frank and the reader accept my observations on this single isolated occurrence?
He just can't bring himself to believe for more than a few hours at a time. But I have had him believing on many occasions and he has often sat spellbound and entranced, as I told him my Truth about God.
But he doesn't understand for long and he seems unable to change his judgements. Frank has listened carefully, indeed at times with rapt attention, to my almost endless stories of spiritual experience. He has been generally accepting of my world view, more as time went on and I gathered expert opinion of a world-class calibre to back up my experiences.
My illness is more affective (or a mood disorder such as manic-depressive) than schizophrenic. Hence it usually does not consist in delusions or hallucina tions, unless I am seriously ill.
[And these can be common to a mood disorder like manic-depression as well as the more traditional thought disorder called schizophrenia.]
The normal mode of mystical, supernatural experiences characteristic of my prayer life is one of calm, integrity, [the experiences are easily integrated] peace and unity. [Indeed the Spirits of the All-Holy Trinity effect the integration by Their own powers.]
When I am ill, it is as though the mirror of God's experiences is shattered; there is disorganization, great tension and conflict.
I exhibit great personality changes with violent emotional upheavals, agitated behaviour, great releases of psychic and / or nervous energy and NO ABILITY TO PRAY.[So sickness negates these experiences. They are healthy.]
No! My experiences are better seen as real and valid as examples of mystical phenomena. Now granted, when Mr. D. (or the dirty old devil) gets his teeth in me, I get some distress, but it has never been treated as an illness by the staff at my hospital. They just recommend some hot milk to get me to sleep.
In almost all cases of mystical experience that I have had, I have been taking large doses of medication (which are not responsible for the experiences by the way).
I have usually only experienced God when the medication is balanced and effective. I experienced God in these ways (Light and Energy) from the ages of 3 years in the playpen to 23 years from time to time, and I didn't start to use meds until I was 23 years old.
So they aren't caused by meds. Similarly, I didn't have my breakdown until I was approximately 18 years old, so they aren't caused by overt malignant illness.
In short, the phenomena or experiences are not caused by the illness or the medication. They are restricted, inhibited, indeed totally obscured more and more, by increasingly acute illness. The medication calms down the arena enough for the players to take the stage.
The fact that it is secular psychology that is judging a religious event or subject must not be lost sight of. Frank has a professional reputation as well as a job to protect.
He MUST, I strongly suspect, comment on my experiences from a secular world view that excludes or marginalizes God, much less Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and that is strictly empirical to the Christian world. (I hope I don't misjudge him).
It has its own values, however perverted, and endorses concepts such as Freudian explanations or interpretations that, while they may have some basis in a secular world, hardly uplift the individual in his search for a better attitude towards himself, others, or a God-centred world and value system.
[I feel Frank's professional self, that is, in relationship to his collegues and his profession, is probably much influenced by them. He is quite religious, but I am sure that the demands of his profession over - ride this.]
Frank has helped me a lot and I believe that we have both learned a lot from each other. His persistent advice, "don't resist the evil (the devil), when he comes upon you - just let him pass through", was intended in the bible to deal with people, not the devil and flies in the teeth of the Christian admonition to "Resist the devil and he will flee from you".
Frank refuses to back down on this point. His idea, that there is no one in hell is wishful thinking. But I know that it is an easy frame of mind for the staff to get into. I might have done the same if I were him.
Frank is a very humane person with a true concern for his patients. However, he has consistently told me things that show, that when push comes to shove and either he or I are in between a rock and a hard place vis-a-vis hospital policy, that he is a company man, that his allegiances only go within the parameters of the therapeutic process, as outlined by the hospital policy.
I feel for him because he is a potentially great human being and he does some good work. But he is hamstrung by his circumstances. Still, he does very well. I love him like a Christian brother.
[Frank tended to look for illness while I was looking for God. His search was for pathology and he saw it in the middle of my experiences of God.
If I may say it, his eye was too jaded to see the truth. Enough said on these subjects -just a few points to close].
The question must inevitably arise. "What happens when a man (or woman) is led by God and Graced by God to embark upon a program of divinization, IF THAT PERSON IS MENTALLY ILL?"
There can be no doubt that I am a well person with a disability, mentally ill without drugs, but able to live an almost normal life with the use of medical drugs, with the exception of my inability to stand the stress of a full-time job and also a tendency to the odd, short breakdown.
[But God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit has blessed me with a plethora of their Presence and Graces and called me. "This day I have begotten you." This is how it has on one occasion been expressed (in a paraphrase of Scripture about Jesus.)
I have been led on, chided, chastened, humbled, engaged, (spiritually married, once to Jesus), exalted over and over again while I proceed from mere undeveloped human to divinized [sometimes incorrectly called deified], small "g" "god". This journey is the subject matter of this book.]
[To deny what has obviously happened and is documented on these pages as having happened is ridiculous. The conclusion is inescapable. The mentally ill are capable of profound spiritual growth and may embark on a program leading to the highest levels of religious experience, to the Godhead and even to becoming "gods" themselves.]
[Now to get back to Frank. When I first wrote this passage in 1986 -87, I was afraid of being ill, of being accused, and of looking foolish. I had not experienced all the wonderful things that have happened to me since then. I apologize for the weak nature of my writing.]
[I hope the last few pages have been more satisfactory -dated 9:25 P.M., Tuesday, July 2, 1991.]
Frank also cannot accept some of the supernatural character of the phenomenon, good or evil. He cannot see how it could be valid or rational realistic, so he rejects it. He "can't see God".
Suffice it to say that God's ways are not our ways and truth is stranger than fiction. There is more unseen than seen! However, if Frank doesn't see it, it doesn't exist.
There is a very definite strong possibility that the omnipresent meaning that is in my environment and the Light that floods my world from a great variety of sources in the environment [none of them tangible] are from God.
Is my illness not a Grace from God? ["Everything is Grace", one saint said.] I must face the possibility that it is not a Grace from God [this undermines the whole basis of my soul - mind and emotional being].
Do you know if it is sickness or Spirit? Let us discuss this in a great deal of detail and with as much discernment as we can. I want to be honest. I can be honest in my reporting. I already have been.
But my interpretation has a bias [in favour of the experiences of the saints. Frank has a bias too, in favour of secular psychology]. [I would swear on anything sacred, if we were allowed to do so, that I am not "faking" or pretending that I have these experiences.
It would ruin my integrity - I couldn't do it and live with myself. But I think now that it is time to take it to the world because it is true, beautiful and Grace filled.
Also, the world needs to be stood on its ear to know that God still lives and moves around and through His people]. So it is not a way of having made it, from the ego of a loser or from someone who is a failure in the world's eyes and wants to appear successful or important.
A friend of mine recently said that a schizophrenic's world is charged with meaning. Meanings that other people don't have. Do you think that is what my phenomena are Frank? I feel as though I am mutilating myself.
I sense futility in my life a lot of the time. Failure is the rule rather than success from my point of view. This decaying physical world brings that feeling on, I think. Also, my illness crippled my attempts at a normal life in some ways.
This is true of my prayer life too. Where is it all leading??? Or is the goal the journey, and not the end of the journey? I enjoy praying very much, but what if it is all sickness and illusion? I can't take that thought. [Still, there is almost total integrity in my reporting].
The practice of prayer in my life is dull and my head feels dead - the practice is poor.
But the faith remains strong - so does the hope and the love. Indeed, the love of my brothers and sisters seems stronger, because I am not so other-worldly concerned with self and God.
I suffered under the devil - "should we not also accept evil things from God" (Job 2:10). I emerged to peace and I saw the Light of the city of Heaven, the great city. I sensed its presence. I was filled with overwhelming joy. I was shown there a laurel crown, but I was not given it.
I read in The Ladder Of Perfection that the devil can duplicate the Lord. Is it possible I am at the mercy of Mr. D. because I accept almost any phenomenon, that doesn't appear harmful, as being from the Lord? Could I be totally misled? I have had a few times, a thought that perhaps the whole thing was from Mr. D.
My feeling is that I sacrifice a lot of companionship, time, and peace of mind by literally driving myself towards my obsessive goal of doing the right thing to get results - to please the Lord. I have no other recurring thought that comes as often as 1/10 the time, when I set out to please the Lord. Is it good, responsible, natural? [No matter, I must go on].
I get (see) abundant Graces at Mass and in front of the Blessed Sacrament, but not many in prayer at home, it seems.
I am reading Walter Hilton's, "The Ladder Of Perfection." It frightens me. I can't take it seriously, although I want to. I am so inadequate, so weak, so egotistical, lazy, and weak-willed. I don't think I could carry it out. I want to, though. I don't know if I could stay close that long. What about my job, [my 16 hour / month part - time job], my family, my friends. I want to, though. I said that three times.
I have been given the revelation that God these days is shaking me, the way a dog shakes a rat - I wonder if this is true???
I have renounced my parents and my brother, all my friends, my brothers and sisters in Christ, my relations, my enemies, my [former] girlfriends, my joys; all without knowing why I was doing it, doing it unconsciously.
Now two weeks later, I have crucified the world to myself and myself to the world again not knowing what I was doing. I offered my soul to the world the way Jesus offered His body and blood, to add my own part to Jesus action, so that all men might be saved.
A form of spiritual crucifixion, dying for others - OK ???? [Obviously, a completely different act from that of Jesus but in union with Him, perhaps efficacious in some way.]"...
It cannot be affirmed that all mental maladies; are of a spiritual nature or origin. But neither can it be affirmed that demonic influences have no connection with mental maladies.
At least some hallucinations may be a vision of the spiritual world, not in its luminous but in its darker aspect." [What do you say now, Frank -- jab, jab???]
In truth, I have had numerous occasions when I have been assaulted by such visions - eyes closed with images of people or wild beasts in violent or perverse poses, temptations from the evil one.
These are always when I am outside a feeling of well being, serenity or Grace. There is absolutely no doubt that they are demonic. On the other hand, God's Light is more compelling, loving, meaningful, subtle, active, intelligent, creative, constructive, supportive, and moving towards union.
, . We will see. I lead a somewhat normal life in contact with an equal number of well and ill people in a variety of positions in society.
Needless to say, I will never tackle a big social justice project, for instance. I am happier being with God and this is much easier for me. I still feel uncomfortable with people who look down on those less fortunate than themselves - the latter being chiefly in this case, ME!!!.
I feel clumsy in society sometimes, usually when people find out I am or have been ill. [I feel quite self-conscious. You would too with a history like mine.]
[I use the mysticism (the Presence of God) to overcome the illness, but it takes a lot of rest and solitude - its the only thing I can do well.] So I am ill. But can anyone say I am not a mystic.
MENTAL ILLNESS AND SAINTHOOD

The following is a quote which justifies both myself and this book. According to father Peter Fransen S.J., It is quite possible and indeed it may in some way be normative that many saints are in fact ill mentally or perhaps physically, although the obverse is not usually true:
That if you are ill, you are a saint. My heart fills with joy and love toward father Peter for his inspired approach toward the subject of sainthood and the mentally ill. PRAISE GOD.
In Divine Grace and Man, (Desclee Company, New York, Tournai, Paris, Rome; l962) P. ll3, Father Peter Fransen S.J. writes eloquently about the church's recognition of some broken people she calls saints or who are at least elevated in status by the church.
He says "The providential design of raising canonized saints in the church, according to the needs of the times, has been dwelt upon by many writers in recent years.
Now in the case of persons undeniably privileged by Grace, but psychologically disordered through no faults of theirs, spiritual oddities or morbid character traits would prevent them from being held up as models for imitation in the church.
Nonetheless psychological disturbances are not necessarily obstacles to Grace."
He writes, "God's ways are wonderful. He may, when He wants, destine some interiorly distraught souls to the sublime, if harrowing, vocations of imitating Christ forsaken and desolate in the garden of Gethsemane; and this "in spite", or rather by means of their shattered psychic condition.
The essential requirement for holiness is the same for all: a faithful "yes" to the call of God, manifest in the particular concrete situation of existence which His wisdom has chosen for each one; the case of the psychotic man is no exception to the rule." (p.113).

INDEX THE HOME PAGE THE REVIEWS PAGE

ST. THEOPHANE THE RECLUSE PUBLICATION INFORMATION

SOME REASONS FOR WRITING THIS BOOK

THE LEGAL PAGE THE SEARCH PAGE

DAVIEYES
NEWSTUFF

Textual Excerpts

DOWNLOAD THE BOOK

My high quality and spiritual book is available for free in these formats:
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Book 2 (pdf):
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Book 3 (pdf):
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Book 2(txt):
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